Twenty four years ago next Sunday the 12th, President Ronald Reagan calmly stood up at the Brandenburg Gate in West Berlin, Germany, addressed Mikhail Gorbachev of the Soviet Union and made the profound statement "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" His speech was specifcally about the division of Berlin but more importantly about the division of the Cold War and the shambles it had left Europe in during its proceedings. Now, rather than try to make this a political discussion, I want to tie the phrase into Power Soccer from where I sit as a MA and active member of this community...
There's a wall right now that exists...a wall that segregates those who support PS without fail (admins and users alike) and those who feel like PS has "gone too far" (admins and users alike). It's almost as visible as the actual Berlin Wall once was....and the need for it to crumble is almost as great. I oftentimes wonder as I read the various threads speaking out against this change and that new twist and that new restriction for non-CMs and that new game format...does anyone really care about the wall? It seems as though we're just content to lob grenades back and forth at each other, waiting for the other side to wave the white flag while realizing it won't happen in reality.
Enough. It needs to end here. Those of you on the "gone too far" side need to realize that you're driving away new users with your constant bashing of the Crew and the Power Challenge company. Those of you on the "support without fail" side need to realize you're driving away longtime paying and maybe non-paying users with your bravado and "take it or leave it" attitude.
Enough. It needs to end here. If this community doesn't start pulling together and working towards a common goal of the success of PS, then PS will surely die under the weight of its own wall. If this community doesn't find a way to co-exist despite the differences in opinion, PS will cease to be a viable option for any of us, period.
Enough. It needs to end here. The time has come for maturity to override the childish games we play. The time has come for cooler heads to prevail. The time has come for the madness to stop and the sanity to be restored.
Enough. It needs to start here. Join me in an agreement to work together...to co-exist...to try to work towards a common goal of success for PS. It's completely fine to make suggestions for improvements, but using language that only seeks to undermine the Crew and their efforts isn't just bad for business, it's bad for your behavior.
Let's all take a brick out of the wall. Collectively, we can restore the thriving community that allowed us to definitively say that PS offered more than any other online soccer game known to mankind. I dare you to join me in taking out a brick.
In closing, I sample some of Reagan's closing words from another famous speech of his some 28 years ago...
"Yes, change your world. One of our Founding Fathers, Thomas Paine, said, "We have it within our power to begin the world over again." We can do it, doing together what no one [group] could do by itself."
Power Soccer Master Assistant
Written: 6/5/2011 (GMT+0200) 5:42am (CET)
Edited by a moderator: 6/5/2011 (GMT+0200) 5:44am (CET) | Total edits: 1
i agree, there is a difference from constructive criticism as in my mind troypolamalu does often, and others as well. A bash on the game and how its horrible, and is very fragile, should be dieing soon, etc, doesn't help the cause. So i will be there during bad times, as well as prosperous times, perhaps i can be David hassleoff and sing atop the broken walls.
Great thread and well written. I feel that the Power Soccer community indeed needs to work together as whole to make a successful change with updates. We all have seen this debates and arguments upon new updates that may exclude a certain part of Power Soccer. As kil said, Power soccer users and admins are both alike and I too agree with this statement he brings up. Why don't we work together? Why do we disagree with lots of things quickly? and not having to go over these things without making a quick decision on things we have to do. We need to think further or beyond what we want in order to get a good conclusion to what we have here in Power Soccer. I mean we are a bit off to a good start but most definitely working as a group will always lead a community or society to success.
Once again great thread, hope people view it the same way as some do.
Just an awesome thread. If we want the game to improve,we should always give constructive criticism rather than criticizing it to the point where we get users leaving. We should not just look at the side of the rotten apple but also at the good side of the apples.
What is the points of criticizing the game to the point where we get user leaving? By doing that, we are just driving away customer that can inject some funds in to support the game. Instead of the game improving,it might decline instead.
So let give constructive criticism instead of bashing the game!
If we all work together, we can destroy the walls that are tearing this community apart. However, it will not be an easy task. The two sides are as conflicting as the Union and the Confederates (for those of you who are Americans) and the view on the game itself is vastly changing for each sides.
If we don't fix it fast, things could deteriorate very quickly. You all know what happened between the Union and the Confederates...
Well before I start, i'd like to say i do appreciate your literary comparison between the wall and what divides us here in PS. But now I must move on to the actual subject of your thread;
Those of you on the "gone too far" side need to realize that you're driving away new users with your constant bashing of the Crew and the Power Challenge company.
Honestly, at this point I do not need to bash this game for it to drive away new users. I think the core of this game was lost way before users started turning away because of 'hate threads'. Those of us who are 'bashing' ( and i'm talking about those who actually hold valid arguments) do it for a reason. Not to tear this game apart, but to make it stronger. You don't think games grow by simple happen do you? No, it's a trial basis with community disapproval or approval. How is this game supposed to grow if the community does not tell the makers of what they are doing wrong or right?
Don't get me wrong, it may seem that my outlash against the crew may seem harsh. But it's to strengthen the game and the community. That in itself, pointing out the flaws to better the game, is taking out a brick or so you'd say. I too don't like the gloomy attitude of the majority of recent threads, but i see it as a necessity if the crew can't get the idea on their own. We have to make it known, or they'll be no game we call Power Soccer.
Your invitation to cooperate is a nice symbol. But is useless.
You failed to define what "we" means.
You proposed two axis of segregation:
Admins vs users
Supporters vs wailers
Those 4 categories means nothing, all of us, part of the 4 categories are under the effect of a higher instance.
If that instance is wrong, as it have been repetately proved in the last year, our collaboration is useless.
Please re-write this awesome thread trying to guess better who is this "we" you are inviting to break walls.
The only variable coming from us, community is not able to change enaugh.
- users could have more patience
- admins could be more honest with themselves (crew would be more realist without a fake army of 200 supporters)
Great thread and very well written, I would've liked to here you shouting it out as a speech rather than reading it though but there we are lol.
I think the problem arises in the 2 posts above me. (don't get me wrong, both have very good points), e_p addresses the fact of where the balance should actually be should it be in the middle or should it be at one end of the spectrum? Andre also adds another dimension to it, can PS actually be divided so simply into those 2 groups. Excuse my bad attempts to try and sum up your muchy better arguments in one line but my point is that there are many individuals who have much wider views than just the straight supporter or wailer as is made out in the original post which makes it much much harder. But not impossible.
Awesome thread mate!
I agree totally with what ur saying we need to pull together to make this work!
Personally i just think tht pple just need to get over these changes, enough moaning and enjoy the game 4 how it is. Also i agree tht all this moaning is putting a lot of users off this game which isnt what it needs right now. U could even say tht its these users who r putting the game down not the crew themselves.
I've always felt there has been a split in the community, between the competitive and community types.
Competitive = Plays this game for rp and achievements, plays alot of ranked games, plays alot in general, tend not to be as friendly, less fairplay, more negative view about the game, quiet, historically little forum presence, historically little representation in the admin team
Community = Plays this game to make friends, plays few ranked games (if any), plays only alittle, tend to be super-friendly, more fairpaly, super-positive about the game, loud, historically massive forum presence, massive representation in the admin team
I very much doubt users (particually new users, who are the most important) are leaving because they go to the forums and see negative topics. Most would probably leave before realising that the forums exist.
As a historical example, the competitive people basically packed up and went home after an update in 2007 (June/July ish) and the rankings were "frozen" for about 6 months. Heck of the top 10 players about 2 were active and both had long converted to being more in the community classification. I think at one point the activeness of the top 100 was something like 1 in 8. The rp gap between 1st and 15th back then was about 400rp. The rp gap right now between 1st and 15th is about 400rp. These guys who left, went so quietly it took the crew about 6 months to realise something was wrong (not how long to fix, how long to realise something was wrong and begin to fix)...
The forums have normally been a place of almost mindless optimism about the game. To be honest one of the reasons I'm still logging in, even though I can't play any games, is because all these interesting topics are coming up in the forums.
Ronald Reagan? The same guy involved in the contras affair? :)
Great thread, if a rather unfortunate choice of quotes. I can see what you are saying, wailing is almost a sort of infection. It snowballs and turns into a movement. This then spawns an opposite side who argue against the wailers with equal obstinacy. The wailers become more entrenched and the cycle goes on...
Still, I think we need to separate between those who senselessly wail and those who have legitimate points and ideas.
I highly disagree with the point you are trying to make here Keep. I personally don’t feel there is any conceivable wall created among some specific groups of people in PS, that also separates them,
I do agree with something Dag mentioned though and, since his post impressed me the most, I’ll speak mainly about it and for anything else said here just generally.
Now, with what I agree with him is that some people are more antagonists than others and play for the RP, and their field is the gameplay mainly, while others who care more about the community…bla bla bla (actually everything he said about them stands correct).
However, that is very much expectable. As one saying goes, you can't carry two watermelons under one arm, so each and everyone around picks his own dimension, and don’t see anything bad at doing that.
Also, I fail to see how that creates any wall with people of his ‘kind’ and the rest ones, the other category of people. They DO coexist all-together finely.
In addition, I personally feel the forum has the appropriate climate should have and basically consider that a miracle. Plus, don’t see how it makes new users quit playing or socializing around after a not long time of being here. It’s endless and increasing activity surprises me day by day more. It would be a huge surprise if you found 1 negative post to 200 posts per day (just a number off the top of my head, but the analogy is something similar to it).
With the latest cm-related changes of crew expected a drop in it, but it instead increased (don’t know what Pow and his graphs say, that is what I see!).
Can’t explain that. Guess non-cms come over here more now.
Lastly, the game is heading in a desired by all direction (if they are one or two who disagree with its direction, doubt there are more, they have digested they are the minority and can’t do anything to change things after a couple of days), and does so with leaders as masterminds, both from crew’s and admins’ sides. It’s not that they base the future of their company on kids…
crew would be more realist without a fake army of 200 supporters
Supporting (defending) crew, if someone believes that is what happens by admins, is not a must, as being admin is not a must either. I don't believe someone does that and see only people supporting reason. Now, as everything crew brings out is fantastic, they do support the welfare of this community and the continuation of the game.
1) Weak analogy. It is clearly nothing like the Berlin wall, for plenty of reasons (e.g. political situation, factors affecting the collapse of the wall, the people involved in the scenarios, etc.). This in turn makes the entire basis of the post shaky, but let's focus on more important points.
2) Generalisation. You seem to suggest there is a polarised approach from people, either pro or anti-crew. This is the sort of narrow-minded approach that infuriates me and I'm sure plenty of others who are against some of the stuff crew is doing. E_p makes the point pretty decently. Criticism makes things stronger, providing useful feedback to help improve the game.
3) Appealing to emotion. A minor fallacy, but trying to make it an inspirational speech adds nothing to the weak points you're making.
Beyond the clear faults, there are several important points to make.
I really don't see the wall as clearly as you seem to. If you look at any idea thread, there will be people for and against. Does that mean there's a wall completely separating? No. It means that people are discussing whether the idea is good or not. The only way a wall like this could exist is if people for and against crew's policy were to say yes or no. By adding constructive criticism it is an attempt to discuss with 'the other side of the wall' (as you may say), far from separation.
It's also completely absurd to suggest that people leave PS because of several people criticising crew policy. I am currently disagreeing with you - does that mean you're going to leave? No. Does it mean others will leave? It is very possible that they will not (you can't say for certain, that would be foolish, but you can be pretty close to it). There are several 'types' (in the crudest sense possible) of people who read the forum. There are those who regularly post/read, who will not be affected by people posting negative comments. Equally, people who go to the forums simply for announcements from crew post without looking at others' anyway. Another type is complete newcomers, who look to the forum for the same reasons we all do. They are also unlikely to leave since they want to engage in discussions. The final type is those who only come for the forums (not mutually exclusive from the above types). They are then not playing the game and not contributing in monetary terms, which crew is obsessed with, but equally they are unlikely to leave (and have the least impact if they do leave).
Your point about needing to pull together is completely worthless since it relies on the premise that we are not co-operating at this point, which we are. A quick observation, though, is that you make absolutely no attempt to suggest how we co-operate. Providing constructive criticism perhaps...? This also raises a quick point about futility. This post, although admirable in its aims and quality of writing, is simply going to have no impact if it doesn't have a clear direction. Also, what childish games are being played exactly?